I'm Vinnie Politan thanks so much for joining us
here tonight on closing arguments great to have you here now anytime I talk about this story of
this young couple to me it is Johnny Depp and Amber Heard the murder trial okay Johnny
Depp and Amber Heard dysfunctional right absolutely dysfunctional this one um is about
love to a certain extent it's about sex to a big extent and it's about murder that's what
makes a little difference in the Johnny Depp case actually a lot different thank goodness in
that case no one you know took it a step further in the violence in that relationship
but it happened with this young couple and we begin I mean they were in a real
relationship they you know were together in Texas and decided to move to Florida they're young
they've got some money and they seem to actually to some extent um have feelings
towards one another it's so hard for me to to put it in those terms because we know the
ending here but um they were together they took trips together they lived together but like
many people there was um there were problems now something else that they did together a little
different than Johnny Depp and Amber Heard Johnny Depp Amber Heard they met when they were making
a movie these two in their relationship made some porn together now it was pay-per-view type of
pornography that she posted on her only fan site along with other videos where she's by herself
but that's how they made millions of dollars millions of dollars that is a big part of their
relationship which turned into their lifestyle you know living a very lavish lifestyle being so young
as both of them uh were now the bottom line here is we know that Courtney stabbed Christian we know
that okay that's not going to be disputed at trial I mean it's very very clear the evidence is
overwhelming the question is well what was it what what will the jury determine it was was this
self-defense was this murder was this manslaughter and there's a big difference between all
three of them big big difference murder you're locked up you're going away you're
not getting out manslaughter you're going to do time but you'll get out self-defense
you're going home at the end of the trial so that's what is at stake here but the bottom
line is she did stab him she did kill him now let me give you a few more of the
details of this case take a listen now a suspected killer 26 year old Courtney Taylor
is charged with second-degree murder in the death of her 27 year old boyfriend Christian obonselli
the chief medical examiner of Miami-Dade County determined that Christian's cause of death was
the stabbed to the chest Christian withstand as the knife punctured the subclavian artery
in his right chest It All Happened following a fight at the couple's luxury apartment
in Miami's upscale Edgewater neighborhood and prosecutors say fights were common in this
volatile relationship evidence gathered during the investigation of Christian's death showed that
since November of 2020 he and the defendant clanny had been involved in an extremely tempestuous
and combative relationship the prosecutor's office would later release text messages where
oduncelli confronts clenny for slashing him with a knife more than once they also released
secret audio recordings taken by the victim s I'm apologize officials say their apartment building
management received so many complaints about their loud fights they came
close to being evicted building cameras captured this fight in February
just weeks before open Celli was killed plenty's attorney notes that the elevator video
does not depict the events leading up to the altercation and in a statement said obamacelli
was the abuser the worst kind of abuser he would manipulate and abuse Courtney in private when he
thought nobody was around her attorney claims she was acting in self-defense after obenceli attacked
her in his statement to court TV Frank Prieto states it is an absolute Injustice to charge a
victim of domestic violence and human trafficking with a crime he went on to say we will vigorously
defend Courtney and clear her of this unfounded and baseless charge this body cam footage was
taken the day before the stabbing right now like I have not always been the victim but like
right now I'm freaking freaking in the situation and I want him I want a restraining order
against the only fan Star first rose to fame as a bodybuilder my name is Courtney Taylor
and I am about eight days out from my first show the NPC West Coast Classic and today
we're gonna hit some back and buy so let's get started she soon became a social media
celebrity with some 2 million followers on Instagram where she frequently posted pictures
of the man she's now accused of murdering his homicide has gained some notoriety since the
defendant clenny is an internet social media personality and influencer under the name of
Courtney Taylor Now Plenty is finding that her Fame has a downside yeah you should go because
you just killed her boyfriend yeah you did So Courtney klenny in court today um she
showed up her lawyers there the prosecutors there they're having what's called an Arthur
hearing uh ultimately it will be about whether or not she gets out on bond before this
trial because right now she is locked up let me show you a little piece of some of the
testimony uh from the detective from the Miami Police Department as he describes what she
described happening Courtney take a listen foreign she told she told me
that she was at the apartment um the victim had a went down to go go to Subways
when he went to Subways he they began to message each other and through text messages they got into
an argument uh over sharing each other's location um he then decides to come back to the
apartment um shortly after he comes back to the apartment another argument ensues um
at that point um the defendant uh says that the victim grabbed her by the neck slammed
her against the wall um she wasn't able to break free and then he she she was going to call
her her mother and he didn't want that to happen so he grabbed her and put it onto the ground she
wasn't able to explain how exactly that happened um after that she was able to break free once
again which point she goes to the kitchen um she grabs on on the knife and then she states
the uh the victim uh ran towards her and that's when she she flunked the knife or through
it and they hit him in the in the shoulder wow all right let's uh break some of this
down get some more details joining me now uh who guys been breaking a lot of news on
this case a reporter with Miami Herald David ovalier is back with us David great to see
you um always the festive shirt always makes me think if we're down in South Florida so
David let me start here with the argument um is it all about simple jealousy like
we see in so many other relationships where hey you're not sharing your
location with me what are you up to yeah I think certainly that's a reoccurring
theme in a lot of these arguments I mean certainly we heard in some of the in one of
the recordings earlier that was released from a few uh months previous you know I think
Courtney had gotten mad at Christian over um him you know speaking to one of her friends
that he ran into out on the street and not telling her right but I think it goes much beyond that
I think it's just a just a toxic relationship where that would devolve into fights for every
little thing um we all know people who have been in relationships like that but this ended
up ends up being sort of Next Level toxicity and and we've seen that we've heard
that we know how it ends but was there why were they together it was was there any
indication on why they remain together because you know I've spoken to Neighbors from Texas they
were fighting in Texas yet they're still together um any indication have you been able to
figure that out through your investigation I think when you read their text
message strings it's a lot of um you know sort of a dependence whether it's
emotional and maybe in Christian's case Financial dependence on each other so you know they profess
to to not like each other anymore that they would that it's over don't talk to me anymore don't call
me anymore particularly in Courtney's Place and then it's you know um something bad happens The
Blob happens and then it's the the same pattern of I'm sorry I'm sorry you don't deserve that we
can make this work um so I think oftentimes and you see this in a lot of domestic uh violence
relationships where they're sort of clinging to that initial phase of what it was like when they
first got together so you see this even in their text messages where they're sort of hearkening
back to you know what it was like you know sort of like the good times and just ignoring all the
bad toxic things that are happening and again I'll get right back to it I mean we all experienced uh
that watching the Johnny Depp Amber Heard trial and and those are two people with millions of
dollars access to anyone they want to be with in the world yet there was something that was there
for them I guess the same was happening here I want to take a listen to more of the detective's
testimony from today's hearing uh because there's a big issue about some potential bruises that were
on the body of Courtney clenny let's take a listen yes and again that video was posted before this
murder correct uh so those bruises were before the murderer yes let's talk about her legs
you saw bruising on her legs in the earlier posted video of her dance yes and that video are
those insane bruises you saw later that day yes so trying to put a timeline together here David um my understanding is is that there's an
Instagram video live that she posts before the stabbing but the same day and there are bruises
on her body at that point that are then part of I think pictures that the defense has brought forth
showing that she was somehow a victim that day correct and what the prosecution maintains by by
bringing out that these things were these bruises were visible um prior to the incident is that we
don't know where these came from right this was not as a direct result of whatever altercation
happened that led to Christian's death um so I think that the prosecution hasn't shied away from
the fact that this was sort of a a mutually toxic relationship right there was you know they can't
account for every single um you know uh episode of of of rage and outbursts on both sides but they
can certainly piece together what happened um the day of and they do not believe those bruises were
as a result of whatever happened in those minutes in which Christian died now the bruises may be
used to show a prior incident I'm not sure but um have you seen because I have not seen whether
it's in a text message a recording or anywhere else evidence of Christian attacking Courtney
of Christian being the aggressor in a physical confrontation have you seen or heard or
read any evidence uh connected to that no not not directly there's been some um
hints about some of the witnesses saying oh well they believed Christian was the the
aggressor for example in one of the incidents um I think less than 48 hours before the
stabbing you know there was some of the employees might have been talking about well
they thought that he was sort of charging at her um but there's there's sort of ends
up sort of being a watch because um you know she ends up downplaying that incident
right um so there's but no as as of what I've seen in terms of text messages um and the evidence that
we have so far I haven't seen anything to say that Christian ever you know laid any hands on her that
being said we've only seen stuff from his phone the defense has made a point of saying that um
that you know it's only it's only coming from his phone from his accounts so we don't know what's on
her phones that might have evidence of any partic you know potential attacks speaking of the defense
I think it's going to be a very aggressively tried Case by Courtney's attorney Frank Prieto
let's take a listen to what he had to say today out of respect for the process involved in
this Arthur hearing we're not going to make any comments until the conclusion of the hearing
so Thursday after we believe the hearing will be concluded um then we'll make some comments
but for now uh the respect for the process do you feel optimistic thank you uh what was
optimistic always optimistic look forward foreign David what do we know about Frank Prieto
uh he seems to be a very competent and confident attorney but he's made you know some of the
statements he's released he said that she's the victim of abuse she's also the victim of
trafficking um so what do you make of all that well I think as in Courtney and Christian's online
lives where the not the narrative was a certain way I think there's you know a narrative
that's um emerging from the defense and they're trying to press press all of that home
because they know this case is being very much um watched across the world um so you know
it's it's it's a it's a media Sensational case and and the uh her lawyers certainly
want to get out her her version of things so um it's not not to be you know it's not unexpected
all right David ovaye is going to stay with us um we've got more to get to from
today plus coming up in the next hour in Waukesha Wisconsin a difficult day
filled with heavy emotions as victims and family members delivered their Victim Impact
statements in front of the Christmas parade Massacre killer Darrell Brooks I have never
experienced such a painful level of sadness leave the jury find the defendant guilty
Darrell Brooks who is representing himself is set to learn his speech and you'll
see it all right here on court TV the deadly parade crash sentencing continues
Wednesday on court TV the killer was a clown the defendant ended up marrying
the victim's husband this is going to be a riveting case the Killer Clown murder
trial live coverage coming soon on court TV anything else did you remember throwing the glass no that sounds like me so I don't remember throwing the glass but it
sounds like me wow now that is from July of 2021 out in Vegas David ovalle is still
with us Miami Herald reporter who's been breaking a lot of news on this story from the
beginning uh Dave let's talk about Vegas I mean this this was a this was another relatively
serious incident again reminds me of Johnny Depp and Amber Heard with glasses flying uh
what do we know about what happened in Vegas so this was an incident where they went to
Vegas um and you know it was just supposed to be a vacation they were living in Texas at the
time and um they get into it and I believe if I remember the police report correctly Christian was
actually a little bit annoyed with her because she um was tired of just going out and
partying and drinking all the time um and they got into an argument and he just
wanted to be on the couch and then I think she you know she started they got this big Globe
fight and she ends up throwing objects at him um so she ends up getting charged with uh you
know minor I think was a misdemeanor battery and ultimately she was never convicted of it but
it does um it is relevant for the state in the Miami case because this shows sort of this ongoing
pattern of her um you know throwing things being physical being violent with Christian according
to the state uh also coming up today during the testimony was he has a prior DUI in Texas a DUI
in California so it seems like this is sort of a pattern with her and may play a role in this
case which is um you know what was she doing was she drinking was she taking any sort of uh
drugs at the time all this stuff was happening yeah you know um I think there there is
definitely an issue with Courtney and substance and substances right I mean um you know
the police in this in this video you're showing right now where she's in the lobby of their of
their apartment building you know they suspected that she was intoxicated right you read the text
messages and they're they're often talking about um doing cocaine and um buying buying
drugs and going out and partying and it almost to the exasperation of Christian
because he seems to sort of be going along with it because she wants to be uh doing all
these drugs so um there's definitely an issue and of course she was in rehab at the time
when she was actually arrested in August so um certainly that could play in play into the case
but again that's not an excuse for for a homicide it's not an excuse for murder under state law in
Florida absolutely and then you know I think it actually becomes more problematic for her than
than any sort of Defense now uh the detective today also testified about tech text messages
and we've been talking a lot about text messages um she admitted in those text messages that she
stabbed Christian and called him racial slurs yeah so there's text messages and then there's
also the undercarver recording that he took um in the last couple months of of his life where
he where the text messages talks about various attacks that had gone on over the past year right
um so there was one incident from last year when he he's talking about being stabbed in the leg
that he could barely walk and how painful it was there was another instance of her hitting him over
the head and throwing things at him and to the point where he thought he had a mild concussion
and then there was um previous to the uh in the month before the his death where she actually
stabbed him right here like in the chin area um and and also on the cheek and he actually
had to go to the hospital and there was sort of a chilling line at the state put in their
court filings where she and it's in the text messages where she texts them you know enjoy the
hospital right and he's sort of covering up and says no I'm just going to tell them that it was a
football incident um so it's there was sort of a string of troubling incidents that sort of lay the
foundation of this backdrop of what went into this uh this incident when Christian was killed yeah
and I get back to the to what we were discussing before which is um I know some allegations have
been made that he was abusing her to a certain extent that there was some mutual abuse but again
kind of like in the Johnny Depp trial as we hear the evidence see the evidence read the text
messages and hear the recordings I I don't see or hear the abuse going the other way I don't see
her getting hurt he's getting cut here cut there and ultimately stabbed to death this is this is
something else David's going to stay with us we've got more to get to on today's hearing we're also
going to bring in um some more guests we're going to bring in Joseph Scout Morgan death investigator
to talk about Courtney's claim that she threw the knife now if you throw the knife could you throw
the knife hard enough that it would stick in his shoulder and sever his artery and kill him or do
you have to do it another way also bringing Dr Robbie Ludwig to talk about some of these text
messages and allegations of mutual abuse and that little I love you that she whispered in
court today don't go away zero zero nine five decide whether or not you're
done gaslighting maybe decide whether or not you're done I am mad
that you told me to come Thrive right now because I don't know and
I apologize but you hit me I don't secret recording made by Christian obonselli
now she's accusing him of gaslighting her but he's like I apologized after he hit after she hit
him this relationship you know it I I don't see anything that tells me that she's being abused
it may exist somewhere but I haven't seen it yet I have not seen it yet all right let's take
a listen to more testimony from today's hearing um you have the detective on
the witness stand talking about um the the scene of the death
let's take a listen foreign so the first one that we find is where we
initially found the victim um which is the first puddle of blood um the second one was more
towards the living room and then the third one was uh it was more between blood spatter and and
droplets that were oh moved around through well and I moved around but it showed that that the
victim was walked around the uh the apartment let's bring back and our guest still with
us reporting with Miami Harold David ovalier breaking a lot of news on this and joining
me now in Jacksonville Alabama professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University former
senior investigator for the Fulton County medical examiner's office and host of the body bags
podcast downloaded after the show not during the show Joseph but after the show Joseph Scott
Morgan is with us um Joseph let me start here um the allegation or the story that she told uh to
the detective that we heard in court today was that she threw the knife and it hit his shoulder
he died because his subclavian artery was I guess severed pierced and he bled out so could
you throw a knife and do that type of damage perhaps if you were trained with a throwing
knife not the knife she used uh throwing knives are highly balanced uh weighted instruments you
know that takes quite a bit of skill in order to generate enough energy to get them down range you
know a throwing knife works it has to spin through the air and you have to create velocity a lot of
it is dependent upon how much leverage you can get when you throw you have to have a correct release
point it's generally at uh at about this height you release it and it has to be absolute you
have to be targeting that area I guess we could go with if they want to go down this road they
can say it's a one in a million shot but here's the problem the subclave vessel that they're
talking about and very simply that that means beneath the collarbone you're clavicle it has to
penetrate pretty deeply vent I ask viewers at home if and I I've talked about this this case in my
class in particular at JSU if you've ever been to one of these establishments where they throw the
hatchets and it sticks in the board that creates and you're winding up to do this and you're
leveraging that instrument downrange it spins even the strongest person that throws this thing
down range it's it only penetrates maybe I don't know maybe two inches into the board at the most
and that's what somebody that really has practiced at it I cannot imagine that any Universe where a
one-off individual could take a knife a kitchen knife a serrated knife nonetheless I've seen this
thing and throw it down range and hit her Target perfectly and take him to the knee take him to
his knees this is something that has to be driven in Ben let's take a listen to more testimony from
the detective uh talking about the injury foreign can you repeat the question at any point in time
did you become aware that uh the throwing of a knife could not have caused that injury yes let
me ask you Joseph we know in every trial there's a battle the experts do you think that there's
an expert out there who could come inside that courtroom and say oh yeah you could throw
that knife and and do that type of damage well there's an expert out there in knife throwing
I'm sure I don't know that they could assess her level of expertise and skill at doing this because
this is very exciting this is very exacting work that we're talking about you know people talk
about with Firearms this idea of stopping power even with the most effective knife thrower
it's negligible at best that you're going to stop somebody that's advancing on you again these
things don't go very deep they're very painful and that sort of thing but this this wound is very
very deep that's the reason the me they came to the conclusion that this is a stabbing notice
he didn't say that this is a a throwing incident a projectile as it were this is a stabbing that's
what the me and I can tell you their their opinion is going to be very solid in this case and they're
going to carry a lot of weight in that courtroom David over here let me ask you uh about
the circumstances what we've learned so far about uh that moment when uh the knife
is plunged in he he doesn't die immediately no Christian does not die immediately and it's
actually really heartbreaking because you can hear in the 9-1-1 call you actually hear him
in the background talking about how you know I can't feel my arm I can't feel my arm you can
sort of hear the life slipping out of him um so yes it was not something that was instantaneous
uh not sure how much pain he felt but certainly the medical examiners may be able to talk about
that when they when the medical examiner when he testifies on Thursday Joseph let me ask you um
do you think if she rendered him Aid right away she could have saved him I don't know if he had
had a team of Thoracic Surgeons that were standing by with a crash kit at that point that she could
the the subclavicular injury that he sustained is is is a tough one that's you know that used
to be one of the main sites that emergency room Personnel would go into in order to to blast drugs
into the system of somebody that's in a failure at that point Thomas a very critical vessel and to
be able to get to him I don't I don't know that that that that would have been a possibility
I do know this when I saw that knife laying on the floor uh in that blood uh the the first
thing that struck me is possibly if she had left that knife in place he would have had a better
chance you know what they say if you're impaled or something stuck within you don't remove it
she signed his death warrant if she's the one that did it remove that knife I can't imagine any
EMT removing that knife from his chest because they're trained to do different when she pulled
that out of there he began to bleed out profusely David um we've seen some photographs
and we're seeing some of them now um that have now been released I mean
there is just a lot of blood on her and we've heard the descriptions of all
the blood at the scene that day as well yeah it was it was definitely not a uh clean
crime scene whatsoever and um you know I think it just sort of tells you something about the
intimate nature of this killing right this wasn't a a shooting from a distance this wasn't um you
know somebody hit by a car this was an up close and personal stabbing according to the state
and that's why they ended up charging her with second-degree murder Joseph do you think there's
going to be testimony that you can piece together what all this Blood the blood stains and the blood
patterns will they tell a story or is it just too much of a mess and too much blood to really kind
of piece it together forensically after the fact well I think you don't really need a blood stain
expert in this case in the sense that one big question that will be asked by prosecutors then
when they stare into the eyes of that jury how much of that blood was hers because I I don't I
don't know I saw this I saw those images that the lawyer put up the other day with the bruises the
green and yellow bruises the receding bruises that they put up uh I don't see any evidence that
she sustained any kind of bloodletting event she knew the insults where she's bleeding out and
you've got a co-mingling of blood now you can look at the blood stains on the floor the swipes the
wipes uh you know where you're dragging through there's a great image of that yellow receding
bruise that they demonstrate I think is being fresh that's you know you look at a bruise like
that that's at least five days downrange uh you know we use those in child abuse cases so I don't
know what they were attempting to prove with those but to the point of the blood yeah you can talk
about some of the activity that he stepped in it you know tracked it around but look if any of us
are gasping for breath we fill our life slipping away from us we're trying to get help yeah he's
he's bleeding out he's stepping in his own blood it just paints an even more horrific picture that
the blood expert is going to get up there and talk about and it's it's going to be a real hard Hill
for the defense to climb I think all right guest staying with us we've got more from inside
the courtroom today plus coming up next hour tonight we'll take a closer listen to these
statements and take a look at the reaction of the killer Mr Brooks this is a sentencing hearing I
don't care what it is you're not going to continue he is arguing you're not going to continue you're
not going to continue to the next courtroom what is going down what are you are you gonna
get this mad at me when I'm apologizing to you no Christian but you're digging I'm doing it
a lot of your hyper okay I'm not doing it on purpose you know well the right thing to do is
to tell me yes and I am so sorry so shut up what shut up so I can slap you uh it's incredibly tragic because he stayed he
stayed with her he stayed with her after that's Christian Oldham Sally um he was stabbed to death
by Courtney cliney his girlfriend uh she's been charged with murder she's claiming self-defense
I think there's gonna be a trial in this one um still with us tonight David obaye uh Joseph
Scott Morgan and joining us now by phone in New York City psychotherapist host of talking
live on Facebook watch and the bite side podcast Dr Robbie Ludwig uh Dr Robbie I want
to roll some video for everybody at home of um Courtney clenny in in court today and
as she comes in in this moment she turns and I love you and I saw a video of who was in
the gallery and it appeared to be her parents then in a later moment um she's in tears she's in
tears with her handcuffs and her orange jumpsuit inside the courtroom um Dr Robbie what do you
think's going on through that uh 26 year old mind one two three four Dr Robbie obviously we're
having trouble connecting with her she's not hearing me David um I thought I saw Courtney
clenny's parents uh inside the courtroom today there was a couple that uh you know had that
look about him uh do we know if they were there yes Courtney's Courtney's parents were in the
courtroom and his mother um was actually possibly could have testified shega she still could um
just to authenticate the photos of the bruises that were put into evidence so you know I think
she will end up being a witness at some point because of the fact that she was on the phone
with Courtney during the time of the murder so and there again you see here kind of making
contact with her parents waving goodbye as it was time to leave the courtroom uh is Dr Robbie with
us do you hear me Dr Robbie how are you I hear you I'm so sorry no no no no Hey listen it's a live
show that's why we that's why we love doing it live so Dr Rob the question I had for you was she
comes in she she mouths I love you to her parents who are in the gallery uh then we see her a little
bit later on she's in tears inside that courtroom um what are your thoughts about where her head
might be uh these days now that she's been locked up for a while well you know it sounds like she
has a tremendous appreciation for her parents who at this point are probably the only ones who
are supporting her emotionally and providing her with the love and stability that she needs and she
has a tremendous appreciation for that especially given what she's done and where she's at in
prison it's not a pleasant place so she is dealing with the very harsh realities and it sounds like
there's some regret there we have to remember that this is a person who was out of control and the
killing was a result of her being out of control it was not uh you know a first degree murder where
she was plotting and planning so this is a girl whose life is completely unraveling and a complete
mess and her parents are a touchstone for comfort and one other question I had for you which is
and we've been talking about this throughout the hour is that the allegations are that
it was a mutual abuse kind of like Johnny Depp allegations were right it's going
back and forth back and forth yet all the recordings I hear the text messages I read
the injuries that I see um it seems like he's the only one getting hurt and he keeps
apologizing to her like he's apologizing to her uh after he got hit he apologized to
her after he got stabbed what's what is that you know when somebody somebody is in an abusive
relationship they they just want to placate the person that they love and on some level they
realize they always have to prove themselves and it comes from low self-esteem and a fear
of losing this person that they love obviously um you know this man was attracted to Courtney
for a reason it probably was a familiar type of traumatic love he experience as far as Courtney
you know there is perception in reality and what we see sometimes with these very disturbed
individuals is that they feel that they are being abused because distort reality she could have felt
he was trying to make her jealous she could have felt like he was uh cheating on her whether that
was true or not true that her mind went to certain places and that became her reality and so in her
mind she considered herself a victim of abuse uh and in the objective reality that may not be
the case so that could be what we're seeing here Joseph Scott Morgan I think I have an
unscientific question to ask you right now which is you've been to More Death Scenes than
any of us more than most people in the world um what are your thoughts about domestic violence
and death scenes like what what and it's it's a wide open question but I'm really fascinated your
thoughts because we describe this relationship relationship relationship and then it results in
the scene that people like you have to respond to well relative to domestic cases and you'll
hear this from police officers you know talking about how dangerous they are but
for me seeing the aftermath I don't recall any case outside the realm of domestic violence
where you see the level of violence there is Passion that's involved there's attempt to destroy
that's kind of cliche you hear that in the movies but that's that's literal uh particularly when
sharp force injuries are involved you'll see just horrible brutal injuries and I think a
lot can potentially particularly for us us on the outside of this case be read into this she
preferred knives obviously you know she stabbed this poor guy on the leg uh cut his chin it's a
very threatening menacing way to live I think she I don't guess she had access to a handgun she's
not walking around with a hammer but she does in fact have a knife and she had apparently gotten
very use used to having this thing around so Lord only knows what went on behind closed doors but I
can tell you relative to domestic homicide you're you're not going to be able to take the measure of
how violent these things are if you've never been to one they're just horrific all right thank
thanks David over here Miami Herald Dr Robbie Ludwig and Joseph Scott Morgan appreciate
your time we'll speak again very very soon
